Decision Dialogues
Decision Dialogues

Episode · 1 year ago

Keeping Ahead of Changing Trends - Ep 02

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

On episode 2 of Decision Dialogues, Mark Willoughby and Jennifer Faherty of Modera are joined by Chieh Huang, Co-Founder and CEO of online bulk grocery supplier Boxed.com. Chieh talks about how dissatisfaction with his life as he saw it unfolding at a big law firm, coupled with an enterpreneurial spirit and his group of “a bunch of tech geeks,” led him to start looking at the cutting edge of retail trends in the modern world. Get the full show notes and more resources at ModeraWealth.com/DecisionDialogues

Are you paving the way for the life you want facing decisions that may affect you personally and financially? The decision dialogs podcast, brought to you by Modera Wealth Management, presents personal stories about navigating through life's pivotal moments, narratives that we hope will inspire you as you create your own story. You'll learn what influence their next steps and gain insights that could help you with your own critical choices. Welcome to decision dialogs. Thanks for joining us on decision dialogs with thrill to have you a law my name is Mark Willoby and I'm a principal and wealth manager and the Chief Operating Officer of Madera Wealth Management Llc. Today, my colleague Jennifer Faherty, who is the Chief Client Experience Officer at Madeira, and I will be chatting with Chai Wong, who is the CEO and founder of boxed, which is a New York based online shopping club that delivers groceries and book sizes. Welcome everyone to the show and I will hand it over to Jennifer. Thank you, mark, and thank you Kay for coming on the podcast today. We are thrilled to have you. I'm excited to to be here. I'm here live in Sunny New Jersey, so you know there's very few places on earth that are nicer than New Jersey. So smiles. That's great. We're to have you on the show and you don't are most people do know what box is. That there are those listeners who don't. Could you give us a little sense of the company and also, I'm so curious to just hear how the idea started. Sure. So boxes an online warehouse club where you can shop for shelf stable, mostly every day essentials in big sizes, and we ship it all over the country, generally in two days or less to the lower forty eight states. Started in late two thousand and thirteen and now years later, millions of customers, a film and centers around the country and it's just been a while ride since those early days. Amazing. I did hear that you actually started it from your garage.

Is that correct? Yeah, that's that's correct. It sounds really awesome and sexy to start a company in your house or your garage until you actually do it and then you're like wow, it's like it's harder than I thought. So you know, especially because we did move out for for a little while and even as the business odds initial searge, and when I say Serge I mean a few hundred orders a day, not like a real search these days, just operating out of out of garage, and we had to unduly garage doors and neighbors were angry. It's just these that you don't realize until you actually do it. Yeah, now I can imagine, but I mean really, how did you come up with the idea? It's to even start it in the first place, and then also, once you had the idea, to then realize, okay, this is actually worth me starting the company and in my garage and maybe quitting my job for. Yeah, I would say there's always, or not always, I would say, just how my mind thinks. It's what is the business opportunity and what is the problem you're trying to solve? On the business opportunity side of things, the cofounders and I were very early in social games on what we now call smartphones, and so at that time the iphone to g had just come out and all the cofounders and I, you know, we bought the IPHONE tog and we all kind of, you know, connected over it and thought that all these facebook games that were getting made at that time in Oh, eight hundred and nine. You know what, this iphone thing is pretty powerful and we feel like not a lot of people have it now, but more and more people might buy this thing, and so let's let's build social games for it. And so after we did that, we raise a little bit of money, found some early success. We ended up being acquired and then the company that acquired us ended up going public. We stayed there for a few years, but overall we felt like wow, we got on this consumer wave, maybe just at the right time, but maybe a little bit late. And so how do we go after something even larger in terms of the prize and not just social...

...gaming? Okay, and we thought mobile commerce was the was the biggest opportunity, and it sounds like a noebrainer now, probably like Bitcoin does at Twentyzero, but this was like the days when Bitcoin was like ten cents. You know that? Thank that that time, meaning that when we try to raise money for box, most people that gave us money were they were blind checks based upon our track record of our last company. Yeah, thinking that the current idea was an idea. So that was the business side of things. Well, I remember that, to be honest. Yeah, even with Amazon when that first came out. I remember our people really gonna buy a book online and not go the bookstore. But you really hit on a, you know, an innovative idea. At the time, right, it was very it was not even heard of this, these kind of bulk shipments to your home. Yeah, you know, for anyone listening that wants to call bs on this, like go back in your email and check the first time you body essentials on a mobile device, if you have. And so it was an uphill battle in two thousand and thirteen, going up and down, even deep in Silicon Valley. Were out of the gates of Stanford on Sandhill Road, pitching BC's, who were the most board thinking folks perhaps in the world. And time and time again we would hear that, I don't know, man like I usually brows on my mobile device and I check out on my desktop. But even if I did imagine I would buy things on my mobile device in the future. Yeah, I don't know if by ty pods would be my thing, you know, like I don't know if that's ever going to be a thing and so and but here we are right, like no brainer. Seven years later in the middle of a pandemic. But you know, it's kind of like a seven and a half year overnight success. I would say. Yeah, exactly. But you had to have some kind of some confidence in the idea, right because, as you said, when you're even just going through that, it wasn't a proven thing. I mean we've in a the people on the podcast around that were stable started business, so they're established industries already. This it is the kind of paving a new path. So how did you, I guess, go a little bit deeper to...

...how did you kind of walk yourself out of these moments of doubt so, you know, just to close a loop and and it kind of is a great segue into that question. was, you know, I mentioned that there is the business kind of opportunity side of it, but also the kind of problem that flicks you as a consumer. And so for us it was that, you know, if you lived in the city or if you didn't have a car or didn't have the time, the means or the patients, as we used to say, you couldn't access kind of big wholesale packs online. Growing up in the BURBS, moving into the city, realizing I was getting ripped off by buy eaches at Dwight read or wherever else, because you know they're hypercomedian. I love doing read, but it's not the most cost efficient way to stock up on toilet paper, and so I remember just calling my parents and say hey, don't you want to see your only son and bring the toilet paper, you know, and so we looked around the table and everyone just felt like, well, mobile commerce is a theme, but this seems like a really big opportunity that not only us but millions of Americans probably have now in terms of problem, but certainly will have over the next decade. And that was kind of how we how we went through it, and it ties into kind of what you just asked in terms of how do you get through kind of the rough patches is is that remembering kind of why you went on that path to begin with? Yeah, rewinding to those early days and just thinking, man, that team wasn't that dumb and they certainly saw something with this. So what would they say to the team now and and sometimes for me that gets me out of some of the darkest hours of running the company. That's great. I love that. You know, that's the idea of the business and how that crew. But I'm wondering, and before this I know you had mentioned you had this other start up that you had had launched. Let's wind even more. Were you always thinking of being an entrepreneur? Is that something that, like as a young boy, you thought that this is something you all we want to do, or did you have a different career path in mine? I can't be as you like. I feel like when you're in your s you're just trying to figure it out. And so, yeah, I thought the easiest thing was kind to be a...

...doctor. Answer was no. To be a lawyer, answer was yes, and so went to a law firm. And then what I found myself doing was staying late at night and ready at a big law firm. You know, early evenings are like nine pm, you know, and so you're late at night. But I would actually stay a little bit longer, of course, turn off the building kind of clock, and just read the stories of the entrepreneurs we were representing and the stories of the companies, and I felt like the single thread was not that they were smart, and they were. They're all smart, very capable people. I always thought it was right time, right place, took risk and those factors kind of added up, and so it then made the whole thinking of being entpreneur a little bit more approachable, and so I think that's where I were the the bud of an entrepreneur was really form when you're when you were practicing lawnche two types of firms that you were working with. Was it a diverse spread of ventustries you're in, or was it one particular industry? It sounds like you. It sounds to me like you got lessons from a number of different industries. Yeah, absolutely so. It was a what it was like General Corporate Losso everything from sports all the way to, you know, biotech companies with zero revenue. So it was it was just fascinating. So I felt like that diversity of thought, it and and kind of backgrounds really helped for my thinking. So it wasn't necessarily the fact that you were looking at technology companies and you decide odd, that's my it was more the entrepreneurial stories that you're reading it from each of your clients situations. That's right, and it ties together with kind of how I embarked on the journey in gaming. Is that, you know, I got a call from Middle School friends that I knew saying that, hey, did you buy this thing called the iphone? And you know, we're thinking about making this game for it, and at first I was like that is the dumbest idea ever. I went to law school, commage dead, I crewed in law school just to and I made it to a big firm. There's no way e quitting this job in the middle of the great recession. This was like o nine hundred and nine. But the more I thought...

...about it, mark, you know, it's just the fact it was like, okay, we're living in a time where there's great, in turbulent kind of change in the world happening. I just felt like there are changes in the world that we could take advantage of, and this mobile device thing, let me, let me think about it. And the more I thought about it, the more I thought, you know, why not give it a give it a stry I know that's probably not the best wealth management advice. I'd never give it to someone, but but that at least. That's the true cut up my story of it. Did you was it one of those things where you prepared for it and like eased into it, or did you just kind of quit and and launch into the gaming idea. Luckily, I had thought that I probably was not built to be like a partner at law firm. You can make a lot of money and it's great. It's great living if you can make it up to the corner office. I just, for whatever reason, passion my own skill like it just wasn't for me. So, knowing that, I began to save some money, I felt very comfortable in making any move after I had about a year's worth of personal runway. So I couldn't you know, I'm not going to pay for anyone's drink anymore at a bar. But, like you know, like I didn't have to give up my apartment. Certainly couldn't eat out as much, but I could keep my apartment and didn't have to go back to the college days for a year and I felt like that would give me a real shot. So you were making the sacrifices intentionally. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. How many years into your corporate career when you decided to pull the plug? Okay, Oh, I was at the right old age of almost three years until offer, so you didn't. You probably didn't have your college get paid off either. Oh No, not at all. Wow, not at all. I look back at sometimes the the decisions you make when you're like twenty something. You look back a like hope, hope it's all works out. Hope it all works out, and I don't, bless I feel a Stinger. I got married. Yeah, exactly, exactly. I'm a cross your fingers work...

...out. There's no parachute, let's put it that way right. Yeah, there's no parachute, but you don't luckily, with that one year runway, I always felt like I could give it a real try for a full year and if it didn't work out, then I would be satisfied that I gave it a try. Right, a real try. Yeah, often times you find entrepreneurs they don't have any savings or they have very little. They branch out ex exciting until day seventy five comes in they're like, oh my gosh, my savings are dry, I've got to start doing a side Gig and in a side Gig takes away the whole time aspect of why they quit their job in the first place and then you know, pretty soon they find themselves needing to go back to their day job. So I wanted that that kind of runway. To say, I gave it a full year's try. If it doesn't work out, then you know I'll sleeps at night. That's great and, of course, as a wealth management company we love that advice of that. You know, try to save a bit before you you make those decisions, just because you're in a better position to be able to take those risks and and make those trade offs as you go. So that's really great. So it's secures a little bit. And talk a little bit more about box. I'd love to hear. I'm you know, people listen to our podcast and have the benefit of seeing you right now, but we see some of the background of the boxes being shipped and moving around the warehouse. So talk to us a little bit about where the company is now and what kind of decisions you've had to make recently. It, especially at this time during the pandemic, it's been a you know, for everyone listening to this, I'm sure you know, it's like I anything I say will be an understatement in terms of what we want, what we've all been through. I think for us the hardest part was the people aspect of it all, both on the corporate side, and how do you try to continue to engage a team. We're not a party culture at all in the corporate office, but we are a culture where people enjoy having meals together. There's constantly people going out the coffee. I'm having coffee with that least one team member, not in my immediate team but across the company, at least once a day if I'm in the office, and so all that leaves. And so, you know, between zoom fatigue and everything going on, that's been a real challenge.

Yeah, on the fulfillment side of things, you have the opposite challenge. It's like you can only do this in person. There's no virtual fulfillment of your boxes. Right most people who take it toward the film and center they're like wow, this is like I never knew this how boxes get fulfilled, because they feel like little magical elves, just like you know, pick a pack of box and espectically appears no a human and through the aid of some automation, is is picking packing that box. And so I still remember like wow, you know, this is getting real bad. How do we make sure that people are safe and how do we make sure that people are motivated? It's coming to work when they see the entire world around them grinding to a halt. So that was, you know, I feel like still a challenge that I'm so proud of the team to get through. How many people were you so motivating, chair, at the point the pandemic, you know, the lockdown start happening. Yeah, so in any given week or any given pay period you probably have five, six hundred people on kind of payroll in the fulfillment centers. So you know, that's that's your that's your pool. So it's a real chat, it's a real challenge. Yeah, absolutely. It's from a functional perspective of how do you keep people safe, just like refreshing the CDC guidelines every every day, of just like what are they saying now that we should be doing, and then also making sure that you have the credibility to tell people that you will be safe and sticking by it. So we did it through a variety of means. One is the shorter term perspective or charter term solution was that we are going to do everything that we can do to keep you safe and to back that up, we're here with you. So throughout the worst of the pandemic, I don't think there was Nary at least a few days where a member of C staff was not one site in one of our bigger fulfilming centers. So it's safe. You say, it's a a like you don't see anyone there, but you're like...

...put your money where your mouth is exactly, and I think that that gave a lot of people some confidence that like, if I see that dude in that room, you know, like we're all written the same are so I hope he's rational and trying to make himself safe so that, you know, as a result, everyone is safer. On the flip side is that we treat our employees quite well in the filming center. So between life changing benefits to five hundred all emergency funds to free health insurance, we had built up a track record of credibility in treating folks well and doing the right thing when, quote unquote, we didn't have to, you know, like sure. So, going above and beyond, we deposit into the piggybank and this was a time when we had to draw down on it and say, listen, guys like you, gotta just trust us on this, that we always tried our best and then we will continue to. That is great and for fall, congratulations and Kudos to you because that really speaks to those early decisions, as you said, that where you invested in the company, the company culture, your employees, you know, and then we're able to kind of draw on that later when you really needed it and you had that confidence in that trust. So that's really great. I'm wondering if, too, they were maybe motivated. Did they feel more motivated because of actually the companies, what you do, I mean you're you're providing supplies to people who need it, need them. I'm sure that was somewhat motivating as well. Just naturally. I absolutely and I still remember, like I couldn't get to the whole letter. So get a little bit emotional thinking about it's just like reading these letters of people thanking us. I don't read that in front of the company when we did like our fulfillments. That are all hands, so that they can know what they're doing. They're not just like we're not picking and packing playstations here. You know, it's like these are essentials and two people writing in are not just folks who just out of convenience when it it delivered. Of course there are some folks, but it's like I'm immunocompromise, I can't leave and I got it on time. I bless your hearts, like that kind of stuff, you know, and I feel like definitely it made people understand that it's not just it's not just a job at that point, that they...

...have some little tinge of a civic duty that they're also fulfilling by showing up to work. That's great, good, good job. And was S was boxed? Always focused on essentials, or were and did you ever think of expanding to other areas? Yeah, absolutely. So we started we essentials, were still like ninety five percent essentials, but you're definitely going to see as expand out of it. So building the trust and the and the very difficult we'll muscle picking and packing essentials allows us, I think, to expand our share of the digital wallet. So once you once you're good at packing potato chips next to life, you know, a thirty pack of sparkling water without crushing both, then the other stuff gets a little easier to ship. So you'll see US expand and and that makes me think of just all the learning curvsy probably had to think about as a company and go through as a a company. Right. So in the beginning it was packing the dato chips in the right way or you know, what's the most efficient way to pack three cases of Self Servi what are some of those other kind of learning curves you had to go through as a company, name sure there's so many, but what are some key ones that you can think about? From the initial team, like the first ten people that that were working in my garage, including me and the CO founders, the only retail experience was one of the guys had worked at Abercromby at them all before thee only the retail experts. I'm trying hard not to laugh out loud here. So yeah, it was real learnings. But you know, I felt like that certainly had disadvantages in terms of as we were transitioning from distributors to actually reaching out to the manufacturers directly to form relationships pure outsiders in an industry that generally, if you're in the industry for twenty years, you're like a Newbie, you know, and so she's like, who are you, like what garage are you in, like how much you want to order? Yeah, no thanks. You know, that was really challenging. But the advantage was that we could build our systems from the ground up. So then now between our pigpack software, even our...

...automation hardware in our newest fi filming centers, all built for our needs, because we learned the hard way that some off the shelf stuff just isn't really made for essential shopping online. So on the operations can aide our firm, Chay, and I'm assuming you got outside technology firms to build low software's far you based on your specifications, know so. The lucky thing is that we started off with the thesis of a Tech Company. So probably ninety, over ninety percent of the software, fulfilment center and hardware included, is all built in house. Should you guys were a group of Tech Geeks, not retail people. A hundred percent. To this day that is generally true, except for the retail people that we sits hired as a delt supervision. Wow. Okay, you might shock you to learn that out of the our head count, if you take the filming opts out of it, corporate headcount by a factor of two. Engineering is our biggest department. HMM, interesting. Do you see that changing? Maybe the ratio would change, but I don't mind engineering being the biggest because there's a lot of things that require kind of constant upkeep and innovation for us to stay ahead. It's more like a technology company than a retail fulfillment company. Yeah, because you know, at the end of the day, that's that's our advantage, like we're not so full of humorous to feel like we can out retail or outthink the retail minds that have been doing this for forty years. You know, a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of silicon value based entreprenurs or silic a valley technology entrepreneurs to think that way. But certainly I feel like, you know, there's no humors like that here. And given that, though, were there any like real early mistakes that you saw that your because you didn't have that retail experience? Oh my Gosh, how long is this podcast? Oh Gosh, I mean, oh, I kid it like there's so many I can't even, I can't even feel like first one was just mistakes in the box. Now everything...

...is checked, triple checked by weight, by UPC it's really hard to get a wrong order these days. Compared like as a as a percentage of our total orders, it's minuscule. But that was not the case early on. So even our first quality control system was you were not in this was in the garage. You were not allowed to seal a box unless someone else double check the box. So that was one of them. Yeah, they'll second set of us. We have the same we have the same approach. It modera really so, yeah, two sets of ICE. I feel like it sounds so mun day and so like no doubt, but you learn. We learned the hard way early on. We got a lot of the things wrong and and just even having someone else do will check it. Yeah, we caught a lot of errors. That's so funny. I mean it's, you know, as you said it, you make mistakes because of that, but in some ways not having it allowed you to maybe, you know, come up with new ideas and new ways of doing things because you did so it's like the balance of having the experience and not having experience. It's really important. Yeah, and then even like even Tory management, the first time, we miscounted what we bought and disappointed customers because the inventory was still lot, even though someone, someone over received like you know, like certain items that you know. We're like, okay, we need to begin to real build better software on the back end to help us double check this. So and that started to begin our venture down inventory management as well as our own Yarpe systems. That's amazing. So thinking ahead, when you talked about maybe going to other areas, the sidetowns essentials, what are the challenges do you have in terms of box and it's growth and where do you kind of want see it in the next two years? The challengers have always been there, but they've definitely been heightened. We're definitely seeing a massive tailwind, but also the tailwind also is for everyone in the industry. So maybe that we've always competed not against the largest retailers in America but the largest companies on the face of the earth. So that has continued to be obviously at the top of our...

...our minds. And then, because of Covid, everyone wants to get into the online central's game. Even folks that don't sell online central suddenly are thinking. Well, I get how user behavior any commerces beginning to evolve is that if you own the top of the funnel and people who are coming back every week or constantly going to a particular destination, then it's easier to sell the things that are downstream from them. MMM, whereas if you're selling a long tail item, it's not necessary that they will then trust you to buy their threetos from you, you know, or they'll trust them to buy three those from you. So so that heightened kind of concentration of entrance in the top of the funnel is something that definitely want to make sure we solidify it. We keep an eye on it. How many months, in years? And I imagine as Teo and also founder, you know types of decisions that come across or death. I can't imagine how many different categories of decisions you have facing you every day. Do you have like a process of decision making or approach to your decisions that have help? Has Helped you, or any bias around decision making that some of our listens, listeners might benefit from? Yeah, I feel like some days it feels like first come, first served, but that's not scalable. So we would trying to get away from that where people know certain things I just don't get involved in because it just promulgates politics and incentivised people to come straight to me and that's not scalable. And so definitely that's something we're trying to get better at. As you mentioned one of the CO founding CEOS. He's just every little detail you feel like express on your shoulders right, like you know, how big is the logo? Like what color is the box? You know, like what's going in the box, you know what is the nomenclature that we're using in the in the emails. But over time you realize that there's people. For one, you just don't have the bandwidth to do it anymore. And then to there's people more qualified than me to do that kind of stuff. And just as an a side, since you mentioned your logo and since I'm on the marketing team with Anna, I love the logo and the box and it's it's great in the...

...colors are great. So whoever's doing a job or is doing it well. Yeah, and you know, for anyone that orders from us, if you a certain box eyes has my face on it, please don't think that it's ego driven. It was actually one of the designers, as a big Fu to me, put my face on it, knowing that I would be to it. They already printed it and so I was like, Dude, we're clearly not doing this. They're like, well, what you want to throw away a million boxes and I was like that is good. Yeah, I'm sorry, it is a clarify. So if you order a certain amount, you get a special box with your face on it. Yeah, the biggest box eyes that we have. One of the panels is my face. Oh, and actually, yeah, it's someone. It's one of the CO founders, because we did to see where I feel like we gave every designer in the company a panel they could design so when you open the box, you know as an artist they could, they could feel like there's millions of people seeing their art. And one just didn't want to do it, one of our cofounders. He likes dumb. I don't. I don't need additional work. So he just sat my face on it and I was like, Oh Gosh, like, which is fine, until you're walking in New York City at like Ze am and then just see like your face on the side of the street in a box. You just like this is why I wanted to say no to this, because it was a good sea move on the part of the person to print a million boxes. Yeah, exactly. It's a gosh that things that don't happen at anymore. That's kind of fundy, though it might incentivise people to buy a bigger order so they could just see that box. I'm afraid of my dis incentivizes them, Jnifer. So I don't you know, but I don't know if that'll ever change. We hope the change, but well, s great. That's great. So do you think that there are other businesses in in your future addition to box that you're exploring or thinking of getting into? Not at the moment. I feel like seven and a half years in, for better or worse, it's like you kind of want to see it's a completion, so whatever that means, you know, I just feel like we've been working so hard and to see kind of...

...the world finally shift towards the thesis that you started the company around. Hmm Gosh, like you know, things should start to get exciting now, versus like you know, versus like right, finding an outcome. So that's that's, frankly, my motivation every day is like we been on it. I thought it probably would have happened three, four years earlier than it did, certainly not because of a pandemic, but here we are, like, I think, after shopping online for a year for essentials, a lot of Americans are not going to go back. Well, they'll go back to in store, but not in the same frequency as I used to. Sure it's just because they realize it's like it's like the first time you touch an iphone, the first time you're sitting in an electric car. It's like, what's different? It's not that you know. Yeah, like there's there's chances you go back. It's sort when you see fit, but when things are needed. But for the most part, like people don't usually shop online and feel like, well, that was dumb. Yeah, now we're year in almost I feel like that's the new habit it and you have to break that habit to go back in store like you used to. Who would you say that? What what got you up out of bed the morning is the same as now? OR HAS IT changed? Anyway, it's changed massively in the sense that, well, there's two things I want to say. Like one is like I don't I can count on a single hand how many times I truly laid wide awake, like thinking about the company at night and then, my surprise, people at our first company in the year it was like pirstally every night. But I realized that it was detrimental to me, detrimental of the company, and no like you've never been able to solve. No one ever feels like the couple with the solution. Three am just staring in the ceiling. It's like Aha, you know, my brain is so refreshed from being up for for like twenty one straight hours, you know. Yeah, and so I go home and I, you know, I just I laid all out on the on the court, as I call it, and then I have a good night's rest on the point of waking up every day. Of course there's the excitement that I mentioned before. There is a time if you,...

...if you operate a business long enough, I think for most entrepreneurs, you're going to realize that it's no longer about building your personal wealth or doing what's right and best for you and your family. It starts to be more about the people around you. HMM, at least when you start from the ground up. My motivation these days is I got all these folks in this mess, I better make sure that it was worth their times these seven and a half years, even if you just joined yesterday. That's the responsibility that gives me. Other that's wonderful and yeah, I mean it's really about the people, as you mentioned before, and I also love how you mentioned that. You know, you don't you stay up at night because there's a perception, you know, that you have to, once you're a start and start up mode or or an entrepreneur, that it's always, you know, kind of taking over your life. So it's refreshing to hear from worklife balance there as well. Yeah, you know, the unfortunate thing is like when I'm up, it's like you're at it for like twelve to fourteen hours straight every day. Yeah, but I, you know, once the phone is done, like ten eleven pm, like I'm done. I'm not thinking about it, like I'm just thinking about how do I get a good good night's rest. So we do have one final question. Say, what was the last non financial related decision you had to make today? Oh, today, just today. TEP US BE A stumper first people. Yeah, I feel like good. Yeah, because I feel like as a CEO, like entrepreneur, you you make like four billion decisions, like your decisions a day. Yeah, I'll give you one. Whether I should have a dietzod or not. Well, the answer. Yeah, one of my guilty pleasures is Die Cokeer dipepsy. We sell both. They're both delicious. So work at thats. If you work a coke, we love you. But a Diet Cola, if you will, is one of the habits I was trying to give up over...

...the past got a year two, but it's just so refreshing and like on a Friday I probably hates a high color meal that I shouldn't have for lunch. It just goes so well with the soda. But you can see, as people listen to this cannot see I went tea instead. So I wanted to fight. I want to find okay, Great. Well, thank you so much for joining us, thanks rapping me, and thanks very much to Jennifer ferrety and to cheer Wong for letting US listening on their conversation. We appreciate their time and perspectives and thank you for tuning in. We hope you'll join US next time on decision dialogs for more stories from successful business owners. So long for now. Thank you for listening to decision dialogs. We hope you found today's stories helpful for your own decisionmaking. If you like to listen to more episodes, you can subscribe on your preferred podcasting APP or visit our website, where you'll also find show notes and important disclosures. WWW DOT wellcom forward slash decision dialogs. This has been a production of twin flames studios.

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