Decision Dialogues
Decision Dialogues

Episode · 1 year ago

Hard Work and Personal Responsibility - Ep 01

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

On the inaugural episode of Decision Dialogues, Mark Willoughby and Jennifer Faherty of Modera are joined by Monique de Maio, CEO of ondemand CMO. Monique talks about her family's “immigrant-itis” and its effect on the decisions she made as she started to mold her career path from a young age, and then the inflection point she faced in corporate America which led to her decision to start her own full service marketing firm. Get the full show notes and more resources at ModeraWealth.com/DecisionDialogues

Are you paving the way for the life you want facing decisions that may affect you personally and financially? The decision dialogs podcast, brought to you by Modera Wealth Management, presents personal stories about navigating through life's pivotal moments, narratives that we hope will inspire you as you create your own story. You'll learn what influence their next steps and gain insights that could help you with your own critical choices. Welcome to decision dialogs. Thanks for joining us on decision dialogs. Were thrilled to have you along. My name is Mark Willoby and I'm a principal wealth manager and the Chief Operating Officer of Modera Wealth Management Llc. Today, my colleague Jennifer Ferrety, who's chief Client Experience Officer at Madeira, and I will be chatting with Monique Demo, founder and Chief Marketing Officer of on demand CMO, a full service marketing firm. Welcome everyone to the show and I'll hand it over to Jennifer to get started. Thank you, mark, and welcome Monique, and thank you as well for joining us today. Thank you for having me. Yeah, so we've known each other for many years, but you know I'm thinking about this that we actually have not really had that much time to sit and chat around your background and certainly your career in your business. I'm I'm looking forward to our discussion today and I I kind of wanted to start at the very beginning and and rewind because I actually don't know the answers to many of these questions and it would give us some context. So, as mark mentioned, you have this business on demand, CML, but I was wondering if marketing was always the feel that you've been involved when I'll have did that all that career start in the first place. Okay, so to back up to truck, as they say. No, marketing wasn't always in my line of Sight Undergrad. I went to Pace University in Westchester. You know, did that quickly. I was busy working at the same time as going to college and I was an international management major. I speak fluent French and Spanish and I always thought that I would go into international, more organizational line of work in management, and it's sort of happened as a result of my going to work for IBM while I was in college and getting a exposure to the international division within that company, where I was helping with marketing and then I was like wow, that's kind of interesting, let me pursue that, and then, you know, went end up going to Solomon brothers and then after that going to school at night and getting an MBA from Fordham in marketing. Than that was more intentional, okay, got it. So with kind of a something you did, one expected, but over your experience you kind of were exposed to marketing and really enjoying it. Right. So from there you were marketing in a corporation. or Yes, yes, so, so it's Solomon Brothers, are Wall Street firm, as you...

...know. You know them to be or had been. We worked in the event marketing and Conference Planning Department where I met my husband, Steve, who you know. Okay, she don't tell anybody we were dating. Supposed don't tell. I meant my husband at work too. So and so the Logan, the short of it was, we were there, but it was very event, you know, eccentric, and I knew that if I needed to be a more general person and I wasn't going to be called the conference planning girl, which was often the term that they used to describe young women who did marketing, I needed to do a pivot. So I went to work as the director of marketing and programs for the Promotion Marketing Association, which was a not for profit, where people from Solomon Brothers thought I was completely out of my mind for doing which allowed me to work a pretty a more normal schedule and allowed me to go to school at night. So I completed my NBA in three and a half years, going to school at night. Oh Wow, okay, struggling a lot that. And you mentioned that they were kind of thought you were crazy for doing that. Why was that? Well, you know, here you are on Wall Street and you're making pretty good living and you have these fabulous perks. At the time it was the s right budget wasn't a word and we were traveling everywhere. I was going to Europe, I was going all across the country, plating events, doing meeting fantastic people would I had a pretty great lifestyle and to go to a not for profit making sort of just about the same money as my base salary was like what are you doing, you crazy girl? You're leaving a Wall Street firm and you're going on not from profit. Are you dumb? So that's like a great first decision. You're coming to right. So talk about so well, like, what way can you talk to us about what went into that decision? And Yeah, sure, the real decision was that I got to be director of marketing, okay, and director of programs. So I leverage the my ability to put on events, but I was also leveraging a new skill that I wanted to grow, which was the ability to make marketing decisions for an organization, which I knew I would never be able to do if I stayed Solomon Brothers, and I would forever be known as the conference girl. Right, right, did I? Did I hear you right, unique. So you did, and be at night at Fordham, Uh Huh, while you were working. Yes, and you also were working when you went to pace university. Correct, and I did that in three years as well. Oh, so, you're a real sucker for punishment. That's a nice break. I gave myself was when I went and studied abroad in London. That was the only break I ever got. That was a vacation. So you studied and worked for six years. Yeah, wow, okay, back to you, Jennifer. I don't know, that's a great point. No further questions from them. Your honor. Okay, yeah, right, so you did even that decision. You did intentionally. What made you want to do both at the same time instead of take it? Maybe? Oh, I don't think I wanted to do any of that at the same time.

Okay, choice, I think it was. It was so being from parents who had no money, I could have gone to a much better school because my grades were much better. But honestly, Pace gave me a free ride and they took all my apre credits and so on. So I was able to do that without any impacts on the family finances and that was the motivating factor. Wow, wow, well, there's a lot to pack there. Do you want to sell? You had a question there already. Of Mark, no, I didn't. I just six years of working and studying. I think I need to go take a nap. Well, I love what you said about kind of you knew that that was it because it's kind of your family background and you knew that was like the best decision in terms of you know. So you know, we talked a lot about that, a lot with you know, in our industry, with finances and all those kind of different decisions you to make. I don't know if you want to elaborate a little bit more on that and and kind of how that shaped you? Sure? So I come from France. I was born there and my parents were immigrants. When I was little, so I was about five ish, and you know, they they had had to reinvent themselves twice over, and I'll spare you those immigrantitist that we went through, but my parents were essentially born in French, all gear you, and then when there was a French Algerian independence they were thrown out. There were white people in a in a country that didn't really want any French white people. So they at landed in France. That's where we're are my cousins and I were born. And then that didn't go all the all that well. The economy was terrible. So we came here in one thousand nine hundred and sixty nine. So the point is that my parents were uneducated and my father, who was intending on having the family business, which was hospitality. They had restaurants and a residential hotel and things like that, never really came to fruition. So here we are as immigrants and they don't speak the language. So I'm the first one to speak the language. I'm the woman's interpreting for the family. So at the age of five I become the spokesperson for the family. It's a little early for it to be a spokesperson, but it is. It was what it was. The point is, what I saw for myself was that I would never ever be in a situation where I was living paycheck to paycheck. MMM, and that's something that's relevant for you guys too. There's there's a biography here at some point. Monique, what a good story. This is quite the story. This is quite the story. We'll talk right so. I mean we can back up the truck and say my grandparents were in Spain and they were thrown out of spade from Franco and then they landed on the first boat that went through Algeria. So there's so there's three sets of immigrant moves, if you will. That inherently made me very conscious of what it was to earn a dollar and what it was to spend dollars that they didn't have. Yes, you know, I remember opening my first IRA with my first paycheck. I think I was my first, you know, official corporate paycheck, and I think I might have been twenty or twenty one at the time, and so our motto is there's nothing wrong with getting rich slowly, and there's a miracle called compounded interest. Use It. For me, that...

...was a very conscious decision because I knew, honestly, I just knew that there was no other way to do it. Yeah, and I wanted to do it. Yeah, and I had to put myself through graduate school too, so I negotiated not head taking benefits from my employer in Lou to get some tuition reimbursement. I was able to help. The Trade Association wanted me to work for them enough that they made that exception and gave me the tuition dollars in lieu of money for benefits and I made up the rest. Wow, that is really so admirable, and I we're kind of joking about the biography, but I curtently would love, loved to read that and it would really inspire so many people. So I'm going to get on your case to be writing that, but there's really reason I'm here. Yeah, there's so much to talk about there, and I still relate to the immigrant piece of it to my parents also came over as immigrants and you know, one thing I always felt also this is very conscious sense of the dollar and and and and what even when they may had a success, you know, in their professional life we're always going cutting coupons and going, you know, the costcower, whatever that it was at the time, you know. Even so. So I'm curious, though, because, at least in my immigrant experience, starting my own business was not something, you know, my immigrant parents would think was a safe thing to do. So can you talk to us a little bit about that, like how when that happened and what your parents thought it? So you're right, generally speaking, you know, the immigrant mentality is more security and predictability and things like that. But My dad had been an entrepreneur, and and not a terribly successful entrepreneur in that he had to reinvent himself a couple of times. So he went from my father had an eighth grade education because he had every intention of taking over the family business and he was really pretty good at it until it was sort of moved from under him. Having said that, he had to do his own thing because he wasn't qualified to, you know, even join. So my father was a handyman. Hmm, he could enjoin a Union because I don't think he felt that he probably couldn't have passed the test, the written and tests that needed to be passed right, and he always felt like at least you you get out what you put in, and I was always obviously brought up with a pretty good work ethic. So in these jobs, I loved these jobs, but I felt very stifled and I felt very much like a woman. You know, now I'm fifty six, so that if you back up to truck and you kind of do the math, I was in the middle of the IBM era and the psalmer brothers are when you went to school in the Navy, you went to school, you went to work in a navy blue suit with a little bowtie and hopefully you know, not colored stockings, because when the day that I did wear colored stockings, I was actually called out for it. So this is like basic crap that I'm saying, but this ultimately gives you the sense of like, unless I'm a white guy in his s with a beard or something, I'm not going anywhere and everyone's going to keep...

...treating me like the little girl and I'm shutting on Petit. So there is this whole notion of being Oh, you're the cute girl. You know what, I don't want to be the cute girl, I want you to take me seriously. So that sort of led me to well, if I'm and there was a trigger point for me, the exact day actually, for me to had that. At that moment, I decided that to start my own business, because I had a fabulous career as a publisher of a marketing magazine called Brandwick, and I was doing great. It was badness, super great. was that because you hit a glass ceiling, monique, or was it just you just got done with the environment? So a little bit of both. I was the only woman on the executive committee. I reported to a man and then two men, actually the president and then the group publisher. There was a big joke that these guys would play golf all the time. Great, and I would be the you know, mody manager on duty and and as all sorts of other sort of things that you led me to assume a certain position. And the one I had my daughter, which is always interesting after you have a baby. I'll get back to that. And then I asked my boss if I could tell a commute. Imagine that. Rewrote working guys. I know right. A point don't tell me it isn't. So. So it's one thousand nine hundred and ninety four. And I say, you know, it doesn't matter what day because at this point I have a fulltime Natty, and she you know whatever, it doesn't I didn't ask for a Friday, I didn't ask for a Monday, I didn't ask for a long week and I didn't ask for any of that. And now, mind you, I am managing seven offices all over the country, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago, Boston, all on different time zones, and they're not in my physical presence. And he says, I don't think so. I was like, you know what, no, I don't think so. HMM. Yeah, and that was it. That was the day that you decided. And so was it pretty clear or was it really more you knew you didn't want to be there, I knew I didn't want to be there, but it also clear what you wanted to move ahead to. So No, so that's an interesting question. So I I have a firstly, you know, it's not first with that point. It's not firstly meant it anymore. But I have an MBA and I and I have these sales skills and I know I can sell and I'm getting offers from other publications to be either a marketing director or a publisher, which is sort of interesting, right, because you could be on both sides of the House. And I'm like, well, if I go more of the same, I'm gonna have my nanny raise my child and this is going to be a little problematic because that's not really why I waited seven and a half years to have a baby. I think I should probably do this myself. So we have talked to my huse when I said, listen, you know, we don't we live below our means. That's generally the way we approach most things. I said we'll try it, will give our souls a year or two. What if it doesn't work? I can always go back to corporate, I could always go back to publishing or whatever. And all the honest thing is that I left my job with to retain clients who wanted to work with me before I even left. So the business was started before it was starting right. So it's...

...cool. You know, a couple of things. Another guest similar situation to you, Monique, lady, who started off in the Wall Street. She introduced me to a term in a prior interview that I've never heard before, which is the mommy track. Oh yes, Oh yes, Oh yes, it sounds like not quite the same as you, but some somewhat similar experience by the sound of it. Yeah, she she just saw the writing on the wall and she went and set up her own business in the financial area. So interesting. Good. Yeah, maybe we'll have a mommy truck meet up. So, though, as a as a mother thell, having own business couldn't have been easy. No, it wasn't. Nothing worth having is really that easy, true, I tell my kids. So the thing that was great was, you know, the full time help that I had and the all the other thing that we immediately did was we converted a whole floor of our house to be like designated off of space. I had my own bathroom on my own floor, my own so I really never I didn't do the I'm working from the kitchen, you know, table routine. I was very, very prescriptive and very disciplined about really not being in their space during the day. You know, unless you know when my son was born, four years later, obviously you known for the first couple weeks. You do what you need to do. I think I remember my maternity leave, and I put that in quotes because it's not it's a joke. When you have your own business. was like I work part time for three, three or four weeks and then I went back to completely and the you know, the regular routine. It was better in that I was available and I had these crazy hours, but I was present. I didn't Miss, you know, even the silly kindergarten play. You know, you and I used to see each other Ridge School and Ridge let's think, oh my goodness, is so much fun, but you know, you were there too, so it's like you do it well. That's really so important, because they think when you start off a business, you know, you really do have to think about how seriously want to take it. Is it, you know, we're here now, the term side hustle a lot. Oh yes, our job, I've heard. You know, is this kind of something you're doing on the side, a job, like something kind of like a hobby, almost, or in this going to really be a full fledged business? It sounds like you made that decision early on, like you know. No, I have to set this up as if I'm the CEO of on demand vml right yeah, and he so you're right, you're absolutely right. I did make a conscious decision. The other thing that happened was I was sub letting space from one of my clients in downtown Manhattan in Rebecca, and so I wasn't going in every day, but I was going in a couple days, you know, about two, two or so days a week. And then nine hundred and eleven hit, and so eleven was the first trigger to have and at that point I was hiring staff. Right. So that was the first trigger that had US become a virtual organization. And then five years ago my husband...

...joined the organization. So we literally have a family business now. Oh, talk to us about that. That for your husband. You know, I worked very briefly when I actually started the CFP. I worked with an accountant who also set up his office with his spouse and I've the only employee. So I got to see kind of behind the scenes about their relationship. But tell us a little bit about how that work for what for you? How did that work with with Steve Joining Your Business? So Steve has also marketing background. He was CMO senior level man management, executive director at places like Morgan Stanley Smith Barney city man else was in the both in the car business and in the financial services business. He's got to see if C RPC, series seven, series sixty three to four. He's got a bunch of the designations. So his expertise, his swim lane, is not mine. So I focus on technology, technology, services, education of for profits. Where we overlap is on some clients, but he's got his own set of clients where he has expertise that I don't, and so I am so grateful and so appreciative of his skill set because it's super complimentary to mine. And I'm like, I don't know, there's just something about our DNA, the way we I guess also the way we're a couple. Right, our personalities Mesh pretty well. I would say ninety five percent of the time I'm super grateful and super charge that he's with me. And then there's that five percent of the time you're like, Oh my God, if I see you for more than five more minutes today, I'm going to blow my brains out because it is in fact covid let's not kid ourselves people. That's so there's that's a pretty good percentage break. Ninety five and five percent I gotta, I gotta try to strive for that one, I think, but I think my percentage is would be the opposite. So he's response, if he were in the room, would be like that's why I play golf and that's why I go on really long bike rides. And then I'm like, okay, that's great. I mean, we do have our own you know. Yeah, yeah, well, that's great. How it you mean? I like how you kind of explain how your skill sets really compliment and experience really complimented each other. Yeah, and I guess that brings me to a question about just your business. You mentioned kind of the industry, Industry Areas Your Business focuses on. Can you talk to us a little bit about how that evolved and, if how it's evolving now? So if first, you know, so on demand CMO was twenty two years old, so it's a it's been around. Yeah, it's congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. You know, it's funny we were talking about you know, are you, are you serious about this business? In the old days, when I was, you know, walking my son up to school, people be like, are you still doing a parttime like design stuff? No, not exactly. So the way that we work is we really become companies sort of extension of their marketing departments.

So what they'll have is they'll have a certain skill set internally and then we supplement were wherever they need. If they have like people executing a lot of things, will come in and do more planning, more strategy, and then if they have the stress strategic plan and they have a vision of what they were they want to get to, will help them execute it and we either can be on a retain basis where we're next that outside resource, or we can come into just do a project or a problem. Yeah, so in the beginning it was like, well, I have a client here and I have a client here because they know me and we started whatever and you're afraid to pick a swim light. So that's the one thing I would say, is I say to entrepreneurs who are starting in any business, be prescriptive about who you want to serve and who what you want to do for these prescriptive persona people, however you want to, you know, talk about that stuff. Your target customer is your target customer for a reason. What is that? Why is that? And then spend some real quality time doing the analysis as to who you could best serve and why, and make that super clear, because if you trying to be all things for all people, which we all do when we start our business, we spend tons of calories chasing the wrong client and then we regret it because we can't service them because the skill sets really don't align or do the chemistry. So the Swim Landes I talked about financial services. So we do a lot of work with our IA's. We work with people like focus financial or in Steve was on a long term contract with city because they didn't have his skill set internally and they were doing it integration of the disintegration, as I like to call it. So they hired him literally to be an extension of their their staff. You know, we have companies, small regional banks. We're working with first hope right now as an example. We had spone until they were acquired by provident. We talked about having a one of my favorite and heartfelt clients is a special need school and Nutley, New Jersey, called the Phoenix Center. Yeah, very, very and that's one of the ways we also overlapt and got to on each other's radar, because you guys are super supportive of their organization. They do God's work. I Love Them. And then on the enterprise side, clients like Intel and spectrum and Iron Mountain and a Uy and people like that come in to call us because we know how to do sales enablement right. We know how to do what happened. You have a brand, you have a distinction, you have a value prop and then you have to train your people to go out there and sell your solution, services, etc. And solutions and services is our specialcy because it's much more difficult and that complexity makes me super happy. I love working on complex selling scenarios. So we come up with how do you go to market? What do you say? How do you pitch it? MMM, how can your sales people sell, etc? Etc. That sounds like you have a lot on your plate. I...

...think you've need that trajectory of, you know, having a lot on your plate with when you're a business school and suckling all of that. I think it sounds like you're you have a lot there that you do, which is great. I hear a lot of large companies in there. Two money. Yes, yeah, so there's a blend. It's a nice blend because the enterprise people are not. You know, there's there's not a lack of marketing people like well, I work with Intel. There's a particular division in the B Tob Space or the Iot Division, for instance. There's a ton of people in marketing titles, but they lack the ability, if you will, to do marketing content development at the level that they need to do it so that it doesn't sound like jargon and so that it's actionable. And then it's easy to understand, because Intel, as an example, has an indirect channel model. They're going through distributors that don't just sell Intel, they sell their competitors all day long. So for you to first and foremost you got to get past your competitors stuff, and then you've got to get a share of mind, share of Wallet and action, like what's going to incentivise somebody to talk about your chip versus the next Guy's chip? HMM, so on. Yeah, yeah, I love this stuff so much fun. Great. Let me let me one last question from my for my end on this part, this is completely off the wall, but could you have set up your own marketing firm without the corporate experience? Monique, I am so glad you ask that question because I wish my son was in the room right now. I can listen to it than you. You know, I don't think so. And this is what I tell I tell I mentor a lot of kids. I Love I love talking to the younger generation because just building our next generation leaders. I know that sounds cliche and it's been said and but I do, heart, heart, really feel that the answer is no, not. Well, anyway, because I said this to someone. I think I probably shouldn't say who I said this too, in case she listens to the podcast. But you can't just go you can't just go into business and be like you have to have foundationally to understand structure, to understand process, to understand sort of how the big boys do it, and then you can judge whether or not you think it's going to be an appropriate model for you. But without that context, this is what I tell people. There's content and there's context, and you cannot do content without context, and that is the distinction. I think. I would like to leave you with with that on that question. And and how long will you incorporate America? So I think it was like somewhere between twelve and fifteen years. If I do the math right, something like that. And and do you think you had to stick around for twelve to fifteen or or was there an earlier stage that you could have left and set up on your own? HMM, so, because I had such distinct and different experiences along the way. So I be am was interesting, but it was short, short because it was it was a it was a specific time period. My career path at IBM would have been sales and...

I knew that I didn't want to sell mainframes, so I had to leave that right. And then it was Solomon. Solomon was more event driven, and then it was PMAA and that was more like Jin General Director of marketing and programs, and then it was publishing. So in essence, I feel like I've been to sort of five train stations to fully understand how our train works from end to end. So you needed all five. I think I did. I think I did. Okay. Yeah, it is so interesting now to look back now as at one's career and see all the different pivot points and and and kind of what you take from those experiences and bring in now. And it sounds like you don't seem to regret much because you can kind of see how it plays in. Yeah, but it's always a fun question. Is there an you regret? You know what, the only regret I would say is what I spoke about before, which is not picking my swim lings faster and being much more so my stuff. Would always be like, listen, you need to you know, you need to be on the website as an example, right, and I was like, I don't need to be on the Weblah. And you kind of like you take yourself out of the equation, thinking that you're doing yourself a service and you're not, because in actuality, who you are dictates who's going to work well with you and who is going to be attracted to working with you, because ultimately, when you sell a service, you're buying the person. You're not buying right. I don't have a widget, I don't even have like a marketing automation thing. I'm like, I can't see, I'm not selling you anything, right, I'm selling you what's here. So if you don't like me as I show up and how I speak and how I can approach your business, you're not going to hire us. It starts with me, right. So I was always very reticent to put myself in the forefront, even though I'm not shy as a person. I didn't want to be like the on demancium, but it and then it just going to happen, poor kicking and screaming. Yeah, and you also didn't embark with the express intention I'm going to put these five different curse segments together and then I'm going to launch on demand. See at CMO. You know, it's like, at what point did did the light bulb go off in your mind that you had the makings of something that you could set your own business up? How many years into it did that? was there a light bulb moment? Well, the light bulb moment for me was I'm going to do this thing come hell or high water, because my boss is an idiot. So that was, you know, that was like my impetus, right. So I needed to like make that work. And then in the back of my mind I was like listen, I was I was a client of eight marketing agencies and the reason I sat on demand up seem one the way that I did, the model that we did, and even though it's not scalable, like you know. Now I look at it, though, I wish this was scale bull because at the end of the day, we're selling experience and and expertise, and that's not terribly scalable, unless you did. You know, there's a conversation to be had on that side. But the point is I was the recipient of really bad marketing, so I knew that if these people could make a living and...

...do it poorly, I was sure as hell going to do it right. Okay. Yeah, and some way here in your first client, right, or you were able to take some, you know, your knowledge and apply to yourself, which is great. So traveler son has no shoes, Jennifer. Well, I think it's great when you're young first client, because then you can really see and speak from true experience. Really, so that's the right. That comes from the client experience officer. Yeah, that's right. You know, she knows. Yeah, so what's next for you, Monique? Like what's happening here in this now? I know what's you know, we can talk about this year, even though that's like, you know, something we can't wait diss be over. Let's not talk about two thousand and twenty yeah. Well, you know what's funny about two thousand and twenty four us, we've had a phenomenal year we're up, and how how did that had? The reason the reason that we're up is because a lot of our clients needed to pivot and they needed to pivot quick yeah, so we like, I didn't take a day off from March thirteen till, I think, June fifteen. I did not take a single day off. Well, that, not a weekend, on a night, not anything, because we were just like we needed to do things in days and weeks instead of weeks and months, and we didn't have it. And your firm was already virtual by that. Poh, yeah, thank God. Okay, so you didn't have to deal with the transition to virtual. No, see, so, I see, my husband and I moved this past year and when we had the house built, we designated two specific offices for one for each one of us, so that, you know, this was completely seamless. Knock on wood. Okay, yeah, see, you work like maniacs for that first team. Throw months, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, and you really help those clients pivot in a way. And really those clients who were able to pivot probably that are having success now, I would imagine. Right. So you're there for them. That's great. So anything that we haven't asked you that. You'd love to talk about sounds like you might have some advice for your teenage son. Well, I said to Jena, I said we can switch sons. I can give hit her son some advices she can give mine, because they were an opposite you know, industries. Yeah, so I think at the end of the day, if you want something bad enough, you're going to succeed and you can't be afraid of rejection, because you're going to get it, and you can't be afraid of people may saying you because you're going to get that too. And at the end of the day, the only voice inside your head that you have to listen to is your own. So it's either going to be a positive voice or a negative voice. You choose either way. You you're right, as Henry Ford would say, that's right, that's and just because you can doesn't mean you should. That's my other piece of advice. Yeah, I like that one. And you brought up your son. If your kids were interested in going into business, is that something you would certainly advise them to do? So this is a funny story. Both my children are entrepreneurs. So figure my son has had a coaching and training business for youth sports, for boys, specifically new...

...sports, since he's been thirteen, fourteen, something like that. so He's going to be twenty tomorrows's birthday. So He's been doing that for a while and that's how he makes his money. Is I the call it his little money. And then my daughter has been a college tutor, college prep tutor, on her own since she was a junior in high school. She was tutoring and she's now graduated and out of school for a year, the past year, and now she's doing it for professional tutoring company because the theater is, as you know, dark and that's really her passion. So she's doing virtual theater, which is sort of an oxymoron in some ways, and she's professionally tutoring. So she's working for herself. So both of them seemed to have gotten the Mama Gene. Yeah, no, no, it's in their blood and in their data right all the way back to sounds like they're their grandparents. That's wonderful, it's funny. That's great. So, you know, keep telling him work hard, because the only one you can blame is you can't blame anybody but yourself. So you succeed on your own merits and you fail on your own merits. That's right. Well, that's wonderful. Thank you so much. I have one last question. So what was the last non financial decision you had to make, either today or recently, non financial decision that I had to make for us? I think maybe the biggest recent decision would be to have moved out of Ridgewood, which was a rule. That was a big thing for us. You know, the empty nest thing, of course that that was like a boomerang, right, the empty net move. Yeah, yeah, that didn't work out so well. Well, thank you so much. Just as great to have you for we learned so much. I wish we could talk forever because there's so much I could still be asking you. This is really great and I know people will appreciate your story and be able to learn a lot. Well, thank you very much for the opportunity. Was Great Fun and what you're doing is fantastic. I said I said that to Anna from you know, just for my Lens. This is brilliant. So good, great brilliance. Thanks very much to Jenner for Ferrety and Monique de Mayo for letting US listening on their conversation. We appreciate your time and perspectives and thank you for tuning in. We hope you'll join US next time on decision dialogs for more stories from successful business owners. So long for now. Thank you for listening to decision dialogs. We hope you found today's stories helpful for your own decisionmaking. If you like to listen to more episodes, you can subscribe on your preferred podcasting APP or visit our website, where you'll also find show notes and important disclosures. WWW DOT wellcom. Forward Slash decision dialogs. This has been a production of twin flames studios.

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